Update June 2006: Gentle readers please note that Larry Fenwick is retired from UFOlogy and has respectfully requested NOT to be contacted in regards to past UFO cases. Thank you!
Original interview conducted in 2000.
It was our pleasure to recently spend an enjoyable afternoon with Larry Fenwick for the purpose of interviewing him in regards to his knowledge, thoughts, and opinions on the fascinating topic of UFOs and alien abduction.
For those who may be unfamiliar with him, Lawrence (Larry) Joel Fenwick, was born in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada on April 18, 1936. He majored in history at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario in 1959 and graduated in journalism from Ryerson Polytechnic University in Toronto in 1969.
Amongst his numerous accomplishments and hobbies his main interest has and continues to be the study of unidentified flying objects, or, to use an older term, flying saucers. Larry was a Co-Founder, Co-Director,Corresponding Secretary and Field Investigator Trainer of the Canadian UFO Research Network, Inc., known as CUFORN. For 19 years, he edited and published the CUFORN Bulletin, the group's journal for members, starting in 1980. He also lectured at the First World UFO Congress in Tucson, Arizona in 1991, and was one of the Masters of Ceremonies at the 1982 MUFON International UFO Symposium in Toronto. Larry is listed as the Central Canada Correspondent on the masthead of FSR, (Flying Saucer Review), U.K., the world's premiere UFO news magazine. He has also lectured on the subject of UFOs at Humber College of Applied Arts & Technology in Toronto at an evening non-credit course in the winter 1983-84 semester and is mentioned in the 1980 UFO Encyclopedia, edited by Margaret Sachs.
Larry can easily be described as an authority on the topic of UFOs particularly as it relates to the province of Ontario. Not only was he a dedicated investigator of this phenomena for many decades, he has also been
a witness to it first hand. In Larry's own words: " I've seen five UFOs, three of which were multiple-observer events. One was seen in broad daylight in 1996. All were in the city of Toronto."
It was Larry's desire to truly understand these baffling experiences, coupled with his ufologist friends Harry Tokarz and Joe Muskat that were the impetus for the foundation of CUFORN, a non-profit ufo-research
organization. In total CUFORN investigated over 200 cases with Larry being directly involved and collected an additional 2300. Ninety percent of these detailed reports came from the province of Ontario. While CUFORN no longer actively investigates UFO reports at this time.
The following is a portion of our discussions with Larry:
PR: Larry of the 200 plus cases that you personally investigated how many would you say were of a genuine anomalous nature?
LF: I would say that 90% were in fact ufos.
PR: How would CUFORN determine the credibility of a report and those witnessing it?
LF: Through the usage of highly detailed sighting reports and field investigation. Ideally we would have a team of 2-3 investigators to conduct interviews with people. You look at their backgrounds, body language; talk with their neighbours to see if they had also witnessed anything. The vast majority were credible people who were just baffled by what they saw!
PR: Did you notice any similarities or patterns between the reports and witnesses that you actively investigated?
LF: Yes, they (ufos) seem to be both observing and showing themselves off that would be a pattern in itself. Also where they have appeared such as nuclear facilities, hydro fields, cemeteries, schools, places of work, these are places were people have tended to be and able to observe them. The patterns within their movement would be another aspect; falling leaf patterns, darting from place to place at incredible speed as would descriptions of the crafts and creatures and how these experiences affected people.
PR: Of the 200 cases, did any provide 'hard' tangible evidence?
LF: Yes, 6 provided physical trace evidence.
PR: Larry, is there any one particular case that stands out in your mind as an excellent example of this phenomena as it relates to Ontario?
LF: That's a good question! There are several candidates for that.
One would definitely be the Scarborough Ontario sightings and abduction case of the late 70's. This involved levels of higher than normal radiation at the site.
Then there is the St. Catharines triple abduction case involving actual communications at the time and there was a 'gift' given from one of the witnesses to these creatures. Hypnosis was incorporated into the investigation of this case.
Another good one was an event that occurred before CUFORN was a group and that we investigated several years later. This one was near Three Mile Lake in the Bracebridge area. Two crafts reportedly came down and one sat in the air while the other landed. A creature exited the craft and was nearly run
down by this one fellow. The Canadian and American military showed up, and they alledgedly told him everything they had on this. Years later, some of the information he had received agreed with the Majestic 12 documents. We were informed that the reason as to why there is secrecy has solely to do with religion. One of the military personnel was a lieutenant from Falconbridge AFB who had told him a lot and he (the lieutenant) knew more than the Americans who were from the Office of Naval Intelligence and the United States Air Force. They did not say very much. He would not tell us the nature of the information that he had received with the exception of one item that was later confirmed independently. He had no idea what this one piece of information had meant nor what it had to do with ufos at the time.
These would be the top three for me.
There was another one in the Peterborough area, where there were landing traces and many observers. We spent an entire day at the location accompanied by an announcer from CTV - National News. He was there with us out of curiosity, although he did not do any recording. We took measurements and soil and rock samples, which one of our members (a Ontario government employee with the ministry of labour) had lab analysis done on. While at the location we were able to observe and touch these. It appeared that rocks
and huge boulders had been lifted from the ground and placed elsewhere; you could see a whole slew of them. The stones had been turned white - calcified by heat. In an adjacent cow pasture there were strange patches of grass about a foot in diameter that appeared extra green in colour than the rest of the field. We did not know why this was the case, but we took photographs of these.
Another interesting case took us two and a half years to investigate. It involved a woman from Don Mills Ontario that reported a history of abductions beginning in 1925. Over a 60+ year time span she had encounters with 5 different types of creatures. In 1953 she began to receive 'signals' that lasted for years. She was a Ryerson graduate who had studied Morse code and she felt that the signals were in fact Morse code. When we met with her she showed us a strange swelling behind her ear which she felt something was inside, she wanted to have it taken out, and we agreed to help her do this. An operation was performed at York County Hospital, which was filmed, and we do have a videotape of it. What was found was an implant. It's very tiny, 1.5mmX1mm, black, and it originally appeared to have two prongs sticking out of it. Analysis of this implant was carried out at the UofT. They analyzed the flesh around the object and I do have the lab report. It is not terrestrial in origin. It was also taken to a lab in Mississauga, which was owned, by one of our members (a former prof. of chemistry). He took six Polaroid photos of it and under magnification (1000x) it is very interesting!
We also spent time with a Montreal PQ businessman who is another abductee. He claimed to be a conduit and that street lights would turn off/on when he walked by them. He also said that he could bend spoons and I said "Oh c'mon!" Well he did it! Using on of our own spoons, he placed it on his hand and it curled up into a ball! The ability came from a heat that was coming from his hand. Whether that's related to his UFO experiences I don't know, but through hypnosis we learned that he was onboard more than once.
The last case that sticks out in my mind involves a hoax. This lady claimed to have experienced an abduction, but she had not. We went about the investigation the right way and learned that she was a publicity seeker. I consider this of importance. It is well documented in order to show how a hoax can be exposed.
PR: After 40+ years of experience as a UFO researcher what in your opinion is the most likely explanation for genuine unidentified flying objects?
LF: Based on my investigations and what I've read is that we are dealing with something that is extraterrestrial in origin and extradimensional, a combination of both. And we don't always see them; they may be right next to us - that’s another way of looking at it. We asked the lady with the implant where she thought they were from and her answer was she did not know, but she thought there might be another dimension involved. Then there are those that are neither - these are aircraft made by the US that were built using back engineering - technology obtained from UFO crash retrievals. The first known UFO crash was in Italy in 1933, the 2nd in 1940 off the coast of Florida, a third occurred off the coast of California in '43, and of course there was Roswell.
PR: What is your opinion of recent developments within ufology such as the Disclosure Project, which took place in Washington?
LF: It's the first light at the end of the tunnel. What will come of it, I don't know. The media tends to concentrate on the disreputable of which there is a lot, while the serious researchers tend to be ignored. This reminds me of "Laugh, Laugh, Study Study," by: Dr. J. Allen Hynek.
PR: And the future?
LF: Ufology is fragmented; there are many credible researchers whose ideas clash. I'd like to see a coming together. I would like to see the general public sufficiently educated in this topic and not just by the ufo research groups, but by the educational system. The idea would be to help people through understanding to not be frightened should they experience it. That's what life is all about.....helping people and helping yourself.
Our personal thanks and appreciation to Larry Fenwick.
Original interview conducted in 2000.
It was our pleasure to recently spend an enjoyable afternoon with Larry Fenwick for the purpose of interviewing him in regards to his knowledge, thoughts, and opinions on the fascinating topic of UFOs and alien abduction.
For those who may be unfamiliar with him, Lawrence (Larry) Joel Fenwick, was born in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada on April 18, 1936. He majored in history at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario in 1959 and graduated in journalism from Ryerson Polytechnic University in Toronto in 1969.
Amongst his numerous accomplishments and hobbies his main interest has and continues to be the study of unidentified flying objects, or, to use an older term, flying saucers. Larry was a Co-Founder, Co-Director,Corresponding Secretary and Field Investigator Trainer of the Canadian UFO Research Network, Inc., known as CUFORN. For 19 years, he edited and published the CUFORN Bulletin, the group's journal for members, starting in 1980. He also lectured at the First World UFO Congress in Tucson, Arizona in 1991, and was one of the Masters of Ceremonies at the 1982 MUFON International UFO Symposium in Toronto. Larry is listed as the Central Canada Correspondent on the masthead of FSR, (Flying Saucer Review), U.K., the world's premiere UFO news magazine. He has also lectured on the subject of UFOs at Humber College of Applied Arts & Technology in Toronto at an evening non-credit course in the winter 1983-84 semester and is mentioned in the 1980 UFO Encyclopedia, edited by Margaret Sachs.
Larry can easily be described as an authority on the topic of UFOs particularly as it relates to the province of Ontario. Not only was he a dedicated investigator of this phenomena for many decades, he has also been
a witness to it first hand. In Larry's own words: " I've seen five UFOs, three of which were multiple-observer events. One was seen in broad daylight in 1996. All were in the city of Toronto."
It was Larry's desire to truly understand these baffling experiences, coupled with his ufologist friends Harry Tokarz and Joe Muskat that were the impetus for the foundation of CUFORN, a non-profit ufo-research
organization. In total CUFORN investigated over 200 cases with Larry being directly involved and collected an additional 2300. Ninety percent of these detailed reports came from the province of Ontario. While CUFORN no longer actively investigates UFO reports at this time.
The following is a portion of our discussions with Larry:
PR: Larry of the 200 plus cases that you personally investigated how many would you say were of a genuine anomalous nature?
LF: I would say that 90% were in fact ufos.
PR: How would CUFORN determine the credibility of a report and those witnessing it?
LF: Through the usage of highly detailed sighting reports and field investigation. Ideally we would have a team of 2-3 investigators to conduct interviews with people. You look at their backgrounds, body language; talk with their neighbours to see if they had also witnessed anything. The vast majority were credible people who were just baffled by what they saw!
PR: Did you notice any similarities or patterns between the reports and witnesses that you actively investigated?
LF: Yes, they (ufos) seem to be both observing and showing themselves off that would be a pattern in itself. Also where they have appeared such as nuclear facilities, hydro fields, cemeteries, schools, places of work, these are places were people have tended to be and able to observe them. The patterns within their movement would be another aspect; falling leaf patterns, darting from place to place at incredible speed as would descriptions of the crafts and creatures and how these experiences affected people.
PR: Of the 200 cases, did any provide 'hard' tangible evidence?
LF: Yes, 6 provided physical trace evidence.
PR: Larry, is there any one particular case that stands out in your mind as an excellent example of this phenomena as it relates to Ontario?
LF: That's a good question! There are several candidates for that.
One would definitely be the Scarborough Ontario sightings and abduction case of the late 70's. This involved levels of higher than normal radiation at the site.
Then there is the St. Catharines triple abduction case involving actual communications at the time and there was a 'gift' given from one of the witnesses to these creatures. Hypnosis was incorporated into the investigation of this case.
Another good one was an event that occurred before CUFORN was a group and that we investigated several years later. This one was near Three Mile Lake in the Bracebridge area. Two crafts reportedly came down and one sat in the air while the other landed. A creature exited the craft and was nearly run
down by this one fellow. The Canadian and American military showed up, and they alledgedly told him everything they had on this. Years later, some of the information he had received agreed with the Majestic 12 documents. We were informed that the reason as to why there is secrecy has solely to do with religion. One of the military personnel was a lieutenant from Falconbridge AFB who had told him a lot and he (the lieutenant) knew more than the Americans who were from the Office of Naval Intelligence and the United States Air Force. They did not say very much. He would not tell us the nature of the information that he had received with the exception of one item that was later confirmed independently. He had no idea what this one piece of information had meant nor what it had to do with ufos at the time.
These would be the top three for me.
There was another one in the Peterborough area, where there were landing traces and many observers. We spent an entire day at the location accompanied by an announcer from CTV - National News. He was there with us out of curiosity, although he did not do any recording. We took measurements and soil and rock samples, which one of our members (a Ontario government employee with the ministry of labour) had lab analysis done on. While at the location we were able to observe and touch these. It appeared that rocks
and huge boulders had been lifted from the ground and placed elsewhere; you could see a whole slew of them. The stones had been turned white - calcified by heat. In an adjacent cow pasture there were strange patches of grass about a foot in diameter that appeared extra green in colour than the rest of the field. We did not know why this was the case, but we took photographs of these.
Another interesting case took us two and a half years to investigate. It involved a woman from Don Mills Ontario that reported a history of abductions beginning in 1925. Over a 60+ year time span she had encounters with 5 different types of creatures. In 1953 she began to receive 'signals' that lasted for years. She was a Ryerson graduate who had studied Morse code and she felt that the signals were in fact Morse code. When we met with her she showed us a strange swelling behind her ear which she felt something was inside, she wanted to have it taken out, and we agreed to help her do this. An operation was performed at York County Hospital, which was filmed, and we do have a videotape of it. What was found was an implant. It's very tiny, 1.5mmX1mm, black, and it originally appeared to have two prongs sticking out of it. Analysis of this implant was carried out at the UofT. They analyzed the flesh around the object and I do have the lab report. It is not terrestrial in origin. It was also taken to a lab in Mississauga, which was owned, by one of our members (a former prof. of chemistry). He took six Polaroid photos of it and under magnification (1000x) it is very interesting!
We also spent time with a Montreal PQ businessman who is another abductee. He claimed to be a conduit and that street lights would turn off/on when he walked by them. He also said that he could bend spoons and I said "Oh c'mon!" Well he did it! Using on of our own spoons, he placed it on his hand and it curled up into a ball! The ability came from a heat that was coming from his hand. Whether that's related to his UFO experiences I don't know, but through hypnosis we learned that he was onboard more than once.
The last case that sticks out in my mind involves a hoax. This lady claimed to have experienced an abduction, but she had not. We went about the investigation the right way and learned that she was a publicity seeker. I consider this of importance. It is well documented in order to show how a hoax can be exposed.
PR: After 40+ years of experience as a UFO researcher what in your opinion is the most likely explanation for genuine unidentified flying objects?
LF: Based on my investigations and what I've read is that we are dealing with something that is extraterrestrial in origin and extradimensional, a combination of both. And we don't always see them; they may be right next to us - that’s another way of looking at it. We asked the lady with the implant where she thought they were from and her answer was she did not know, but she thought there might be another dimension involved. Then there are those that are neither - these are aircraft made by the US that were built using back engineering - technology obtained from UFO crash retrievals. The first known UFO crash was in Italy in 1933, the 2nd in 1940 off the coast of Florida, a third occurred off the coast of California in '43, and of course there was Roswell.
PR: What is your opinion of recent developments within ufology such as the Disclosure Project, which took place in Washington?
LF: It's the first light at the end of the tunnel. What will come of it, I don't know. The media tends to concentrate on the disreputable of which there is a lot, while the serious researchers tend to be ignored. This reminds me of "Laugh, Laugh, Study Study," by: Dr. J. Allen Hynek.
PR: And the future?
LF: Ufology is fragmented; there are many credible researchers whose ideas clash. I'd like to see a coming together. I would like to see the general public sufficiently educated in this topic and not just by the ufo research groups, but by the educational system. The idea would be to help people through understanding to not be frightened should they experience it. That's what life is all about.....helping people and helping yourself.
Our personal thanks and appreciation to Larry Fenwick.